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Need Help, Is It Me?

2K views 20 replies 6 participants last post by  Bex 
#1 ·
Hi guys i have been on here before and was lucky enough to have bex and few other guys help me solve some issues i had with my 1990. I have a few questions, again, but starting first with "why in the hell do all these samurias and trackers keep blowing headgaskets between cylinders 2 and 3" i was on here first for an over cooling issue that turned out to be the blown headgasket, and chased thermostats and fan clutches until the thing really blew and i could just get it home. I just finished helping a buddy with his 1.3 samurai that had a blown headgasket between 2-3 (just like my 1990) and while the thing overheated and the gasket was as crusty as could be that was my second one changing in 6 months with all motors having under 100k on them. Now im digging into my 1993 and have had several problems to sort out, but after wondering why it cranks so much before starting and runs like crap i unplugged the spark plug wires, 1 killed it, 2 did nothing, 3 did nothing, and 4 killed it. I pulled the plugs to double check, and with the bad news i find a craving to drown my sorrows in gin and kick the jack stands out with myself underneath. The red 1990 is good now, The blue 1993 has several problems, the strut towers are bent in giving me mad positive camber (maybe it'll finally straighten out with that lift i always wanted!) and the trans mount was gone, so i replaced the saggy motor mounts, the missing trans mount only to find my shifter is still almost touching in the uppermost passenger corner like before. I am at a loss, all the mounts are good, but the shifter is not in the correct place by a long shot. And yes, someone jumped it or something because i just swapped out the 3rd member for a spare i had and the bent strut towers, im trying to fix it all. All that being said the engine mounts and trans brace are undamaged and as i can tell straight. The fan clutch isnt pushed into the radiator and the distributor isnt mashed against the firewall so what gives? any ideas are welcome, i would can this thing for parts but apart from a few underside dents and tweaks it doesnt have any rust is in good shape. So my questions are, why so many headgaskets (i don't touch them before hand, they just get to me broken) and whats with my shifter being so far off still even with new mounts?
 
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#2 ·
#3 ·
I see

I See, it seems i'm getting alot of overheated cars then, i keep telling people San Diego is a desert. I was mostly wondering the frequency, as it is a major pain to haul the head over to the machine shop since i get mixed results but i gotta do it. The main thing i was wondering was- How do i fix bent strut mount towers? I friend that's on pirate4x4 said to use a ratchet strap to pull it back but i'm planning on driving this thing to school or trailing with my friends between my 2 trackers and dont want some half assed repair breaking the car (like broken broken, not unbolt and replace but like dead broken). I picked up a strut tower brace from a 1998 Grand Vitaru im going to mod to keep it from going back, and am using my 1990 as a straight template to make the strut tower brace incase annealing has weakened the towers. I can weld them but i dont want to trust my life or anyone elses on welded strut towers. I just replaced the motor and trans mounts but my shifter is still almost touching the upper passenger corner of the rectangular shifter opening? I took the center console out and checked out my 1990 as reference, its way off on the 1993. I have inspected to see if the subframe is bent, but as i can tell and measure ( compared to the 1990) the subframe is straight, the trans cross brace is straight. The front 3rd member was cracked and someone welded a flat plate to it so i just replaced it (will get picture). I almost wonder if the body has shifted or the trans tunnel is bent? Its a bone stock 1993 4x4 5 speed, 8 valve with 85k. I have a 1990 that runs great (thanks again guys, i cant stress that enough) with a perfect body i can use for reference, also a 4x4 5 speed 8v. I'm taking pictures later today, and will work on posting them. if anyone has any idea on this, please let me know.
 
#4 ·
The bent strut towers is probably a job for a body shop with the correct hydraulic rams, if they aren't straight then the alignment will be wrong. The dimensions for the frame are on the internet, Acksfaq should have the drawing, it was in the FSM.
If the subframes are straight then maybe the brackets on the frame are bent or the lever was modified to suit a bodylift.
 
#8 · (Edited)
It's all good

I'm good man, i can take hearing good advice twice, but no i hadnt heard of relaxing the head. The headgasket and head related stuff is on the back burner a bit as i can only take it to the machine shop and wait to get it back. I have pictures, one of the shifter, one of the top of the strut tower and one of the old 3rd member someone boogered up. The last with the 3rd member is just for show, im going to see what parts i can salvage but i'm taking the case as a total loss. When i am finished with my other work i am going to hop on and start measuring to see what is out of spec or the body. Thanks alot guys, i appreciate all the help and advice.



 
#10 ·
Having looked at the pics, I would suggest you have a twisted frame, or one rail pushed back out of square...

You may have to get that thing on a frame rack to make sure it is square and straight... Did someone have a hard collision or drop??

... Philip
 
#11 ·
Oh Damn....

well, im not sure where i could take it to check that... twisted or shifted.... I'm 800$ into this thing, and have been wanting a spare motor, trans, head, rear end but to my limited knowledge that sounds like its destiny is to be turned into rotors after the body goes to scrap. I don't have a frame jig. This thing was jumped or something, it doesn't have collision damage but the 3rd member was cracked and welded, strut towers are bent in like it bottomed out hard, and the trans shifter is not in the right place. Anyone else have any ideas, ill have measurements tomorrow. I cant drive it around as its a AZ title and until i get it up and running im stuck doing stuff at the house until i can smog it.
 
#12 ·
I think you might want to find a "frame donor" and make one good TracKick from two. The cost of getting this frame repaired would be more than a broken down TracKick with a good frame. I think you'd have to pull the body to fix the frame anyway...

When done You'd be able to sell the extra parts and might come out even. (or just not that far behind.)

I am currently pulling a frame with engine and running gear from under a wreaked 1994 soft top. It will go under my '89 TinTop. I'll have a procedure when I get done.
 
#13 ·
Thank you guys for the replies

I still dont understand the source of the issue, moreover how to fix it. The part of the frame holding the rearward bushings of the ar-arms is mangled, as i can tell and measure this hasnt effected caster, but with the camber so far off all i can get is messed up measurements. I was thinking about the frame swap, i checked the forums and i beleive i found where you have been at this, dual camo trackers? At this point a frame off restoration is more of a pain than its worth as i can buy another low milage and scrap this one out to have the spare tranny, motor and importantly extra 8v head i always wanted. I guess catching tracker fever is a good thing, as i cant justify having a whole cars worth of parts and just one car to have those parts for. part of me wonders, if making a new trans mount may be the answer, to push it back over to where it belongs, but that still leaves me up the creek in terms of those collapsed strut towers. The damn rego is up and out of state, and that comes to mind whenever i look at this thing and compare the cost of trying, i say again trying to fix it as opposed to parting out and getting that tin top i always wanted. Also, looking at the idle air control on the 1990 and then the 1993, i see a difference, mainly in that the idle air isnt the idle speed. I cant buy the idle speed control, is the 1993 idle air the notorious never to be found part?
 
#14 ·
Also, looking at the idle air control on the 1990 and then the 1993, i see a difference, mainly in that the idle air isnt the idle speed. I cant buy the idle speed control, is the 1993 idle air the notorious never to be found part?
The Suzuki terminology changed back and forth during some years, I believe - the idle air controller and the idle speed solenoid are the same thing - the difference will be that in the 1990, it is purely electric with no hoses coming out of it, while starting in 1991, it has two coolant hoses and an air hose.

By the way, if you have 'tracker fever' having a parts car stashed away may not be the worst thing in the world - Suzuki is pulling out of the US market, and parts are going to become harder to find. I have a 97 Vitara in my shed that I never intended as a parts car, but cannot register it as it is a 'foreign' origin. It has become my Suzuki store, and it has already paid for itself just in a few suspension parts that I needed. Just a thought, if you have room....
 
#15 ·
Thanks Bex

I have the room to store the parts, and i can easily see were having another engine and trans is ideal. I have never found a complete 8v motor, and the only other motor i found had a hole threw the side and gray sludge where the 16v ate the car up. If i can get a shop to true up the frame for a decent rate and the trans mount still isnt lining up i may just fab another one. Is 90 the only year, or is 89 one as well? I havnt been able to find the wax pellet ISC replacement, but i got the electric off of rock auto and that fixed the idle on my red 1990. Also, is the electric ISC any less efficient, as in does that setup get worse mileage or performance? why did they change over? I have the FSM for both, and it doesnt really list anything as to reasoning, unfortunately, just some changes. Looking to the future, unless i can source replacement parts like the wax pellet IAC (1993 tracker) that is going to be a huge deal breaker. I remember the crap mileage i got when my 1990 was acting up, and if that inevitably happens in my 1993 its just going straight to parts. I got this car for 800$, and figured by the end of it all if im in 3,000$ total repairs, tires and all preventative maint. with some fun stuff im okay with that. Most that i see around here dont have rust but have high miles and are still close to or over 3k. One last question, when i offroad my 1990 with the hardtop i can hear a bunch of creaking from flex with that hardtop, so if i start welding or have a frame repair done will i make the vehicle unsafe? Thanks again for the help and advice so far guys, its awesome to bounce ideas off such a helpful and knowledgeable bunch.
 
#19 ·
I have the room to store the parts, and i can easily see were having another engine and trans is ideal. I have never found a complete 8v motor, and the only other motor i found had a hole threw the side and gray sludge where the 16v ate the car up. If i can get a shop to true up the frame for a decent rate and the trans mount still isnt lining up i may just fab another one. Is 90 the only year, or is 89 one as well? I havnt been able to find the wax pellet ISC replacement, but i got the electric off of rock auto and that fixed the idle on my red 1990. Also, is the electric ISC any less efficient, as in does that setup get worse mileage or performance? why did they change over? I have the FSM for both, and it doesnt really list anything as to reasoning, unfortunately, just some changes. Looking to the future, unless i can source replacement parts like the wax pellet IAC (1993 tracker) that is going to be a huge deal breaker. I remember the crap mileage i got when my 1990 was acting up, and if that inevitably happens in my 1993 its just going straight to parts. I got this car for 800$, and figured by the end of it all if im in 3,000$ total repairs, tires and all preventative maint. with some fun stuff im okay with that. Most that i see around here dont have rust but have high miles and are still close to or over 3k. One last question, when i offroad my 1990 with the hardtop i can hear a bunch of creaking from flex with that hardtop, so if i start welding or have a frame repair done will i make the vehicle unsafe? Thanks again for the help and advice so far guys, its awesome to bounce ideas off such a helpful and knowledgeable bunch.
While my motor is in great shape, I found that suspension parts were starting to go - a center link is over $300 over here - which I needed. I also needed the idler arm on my Tracker. Just those two components were pretty much the cost of the Vitara - not to mention that I also now have access to great seats, body panels, sensors, etc., etc. The car will pay for itself many times over.
The Trackick basically came in 3 'generations' - 1989/90. 1991-1995, 1996-1998. Each generation brought modernization and 'improvements'. Your 89/90 has a standalone distributor, for example, which governs spark. Starting in 1991, the ECU governs spark - so, an improvement. Same with changing a totally electric ISC to one connected to coolant/air. Each generation basically gets the same kind of mileage - most of the improvements (and actually the sensors) really deal with emissions. At one time, the US was concerned with air quality (although I read now that many states no longer have emissions testing - we are still governed by it over here).
That wax pellet valve is not really essential - it only works for those few minutes while the car is warming up (and the wax pellet is expanding). You can simulate the same higher idle just by using your gas pedal, frankly. Many people just close this air valve up with clay or similar, if it gives a problem. I wouldn't worry about it at all.
I have found (although others may disagree with me) that most 4wd trucks are pretty 'creaky' and noisier than a passenger car. IMHO, it's just the nature of the beast, to a certain extent. I have had extensive welding done to my frame, and as long as this is done by a good professional, it will not detract from the safety of the car. My frame replacement is actually stronger than original - the replacements are stronger plate than originally was used on the frame, and my car feels tight and secure. Now, frankly, some of these repairs may be 'emotional' decisions - I have had this car for 20 years, and engine-wise, it has been dependable, trouble free and relatively economical. When the frame started to go, most people would have possibly just replaced the car, but rather than purchasing someone else's 'problem', I decided to repair my own, as I knew its history, maintenance, etc. I have sunk about $1000 into frame and suspension repairs over the past 18 months or so - to me, that's still far less than a car payment, and, considering how much this car has cost me in repairs over 20 years (very little), I felt I 'owed it to the car'. Of course, just having purchased a car, you will not have that 'attachment'. But as these cars become fewer and far between on the road, those of us who have a kind of cult-like following to them will be doing more and more to keep the existing ones on the road. Just my 2c. ;)
 
#18 · (Edited)
Also Bex, I just read about your 1997, how did you get a tintop 1997 in 8v?! I thought changeover was 94 to 16v? Is this a suzuki badged vs chevy?
Different markets. In the US, Suzuki stopped selling the 2 door TinTop when they came out with the 4 door in 1991. (But they kept selling 2 door tin tops to the rest of the world.) Geo did the same but that was 1996 with the 4 door Tracker.

The 8v motor was available in the US "fed" market (not California) until 1995. After 1991, 16v came in all 4 doors, "Cali" market (that is not JUST California) vehicles and some up-scale models. (The exact model years varied a bit.) The 16v was made the only engine in with OBD2 in the US starting in 1996. But as Rhino says the 8v was sold in other markets until much later.

All Trackicks were Suzuki's. Some had other badges and model names. Chevrolet Tracker, Chevrolet Vitara, Geo Tracker, GMC Tracker, Mazda Proceed Levante, Pontiac Sunrunner, Santana 300/ 350, Suzuki Vitara, Suzuki Sidekick, Suzuki Escudo.

See: Suzuki Escudo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
#17 ·
They were sold in the UK through to 2001 with the 8V engine and through to 2005 as a commercial with a TD engine. The 16V engine was dropped in 1998, my own 2000 model is an 8V soft top.
 
#20 ·
Wow,

Thanks on all the info guys. I have had my eye on a tin top but they are rare and the main reason for it would be so that the AC actually works well. The mini pickup truck conversion where people put ford ranger rear windows and close it up behind the front seats seems more efficient. Thanks on the info from year to year, esp. with the market changes. I dont know about you guys but i prefer the 8v, i have found the simpler design to give me a piece of mind when it comes time to do maint. I got into these cars at the start with a friend whom i rebuild the motor and trans for. The rest is history, after doing weekly repairs on a low mile 1980 AMC jeep i got tired of it, it got too expensive for not much. I look at what most people put these threw and i dont do anything like it, bumpy dirt roads and some sand dunes is about it, the creak i was talking about was from the frame and body flexing. The noise isnt a big deal but from what ive seen welds dont take to bending well, i could be wrong, but they seem to break. Thats was my concern, i'm glad to know on the clay or mechanics putty, i remember reading up on that when i was chasing the 1990's idle issues and was confused as to where the clay was supposed to go as the description just didnt add up. I will try to fix it, and keep you guys up to date as i progress on it, but yes, i feel the same way. There isnt anything around here thats 4 cyl./4x4/4 seats/cheap on insurance and maintenance. Its also kinda nice when people tell me i have an awesome "jeep thing". I have tracker fever, i just have to figure out how to fix her, i'll keep on it and keep yall up to date.
 
#21 ·
The plate behind which the wax pellet sits is just on the right (passenger side) of the throttle body, to the right of the throttle position sensor. IIRC, it's two screws to remove it. When you take the plate off, you will see the valve, kind of like a black plunger, and there is a port hole on the right side of the housing. As the wax melts, the plunger moves forward and covers that hole, blocking the air. So you just push the clay into the housing, so that the hole is covered and the cavity filled.
And although other's have a different opinion, I, too, prefer the 8v. It's simple, less problems, and easy to repair.
 
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