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Old 10-20-2008, 04:00 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Troubles with MAF sensor

Has anyone had any troubles with the Mass air flow sensor on their Suzuki Esteem Wagon 2002? The garage is telling me that's what my problems are but to order the part, they need to get it from Suzuki, and it's $1000.

Has anyone had the same problem, or know where I could order the part for a better rate?

Thanks

Rob
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Old 10-21-2008, 07:02 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Code might be misleading

Hi there. I don't know how helpful this will be, but when I had my engine throwing that code when I accelerated hard, I changed the sensor (found it on ebay for $15) and it made no difference (code came back).

What is the suzuki part number of your sensor? I have my old one which is still probably good if you really do need one.

I did some research and was pointed in the direction of the EGR valve, which is bolted to the back of the air intake. Mine was plugged pretty solid with soot, so I cleaned it up using most of a can of carb cleaner, and some scraping and the code did not come back.

Now, I have a different code showing the upstream O2 sensor is bad though. Still need to replace that one...
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Old 10-21-2008, 02:37 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Haven't had a bit of trouble with mine, whats the code?
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Old 01-15-2009, 11:34 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I'm told by mechanic i'm having trouble with this too although there is no light (yet). There is poor performance as described in a long thread (link below). Suzuki Dealer says they've hunted around for an aftermarket maf to no avail . The high cost is due to having to buy the entire throttle body including the maf. Seems crazy and am wondering if its just a squeeze? ANyone know of a supplier of the maf as a separate item?? ONly other source is a wrecker but who knows how long it'll work - any experience/ suggestions on this?

Meantime, as frosty suggested, i should have a look at egr valve and ebay.

Thanks

PS, the mechanic thought there is a small heater inside the maf and it is the heater that is burnt out. Also, apparently Hitachi originally made the mafs but won't/ can't sell them separately.

Other (symptoms) thread is at
http://www.suzuki-forums.com/suzuki-...n-noise-3.html

Last edited by suzibyte; 01-15-2009 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 01-15-2009, 11:54 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzibyte View Post
PS, the mechanic thought there is a small heater inside the maf and it is the heater that is burnt out. Also, apparently Hitachi originally made the mafs but won't/ can't sell them separately.
[/url]
The MAF itself is a heated wire (hot wire sensor), the incoming air cools it which changes its resistance. The ECU can tell from the resistance how much air is flowing. A resistance check across the terminals will tell you if its burnt out. Sometimes they just get dirty and can be cleaned, I've not done that myself but I'm sure Google will return a few answers.
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Old 01-15-2009, 09:11 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Rhinoman, i do believe you hit the nail on the head (confirm tomorrow). Dirt is a real possibility since the snorkel tube to air filter got cracked dunno how long ago and i just patched it with tape. Wasn't aware how sensitive the thing was. Anyway, Google did indeed return many threads discussing the issue, also returned many discussing "boggy" and maf together which seems to confirm the diagnosis. Normally, the need to clean is associated most often with oil type air filters as the oily surface attracts any dust which then bakes on. Various cleaners suggested, as special maf cleaner, carb or brake cleaner, I'll probably go with the carb cleaner. Too c-c-cold outside to work on this myself :-( so hopefully my local mechanic isn't too ham fisted! 1-2 yr intervals between cleanings seems to be quite normal - this is all new to me (i'll certainly arrange next cleaning in the summer!)

As for searching out a new one, no luck on ebay so far but i am wondering if these things are more or less interchangeable. Many pictures look very similar. Must be some other car with a similar layout & air velocity. Many posts suggested a fair bit of latitude on these things to anything BUT DIRT! Anybody have a comparative spec sheet or know a guru/ manufacturer?

Dealer is warning me i better get on with it or i ruin catalytic or worse. Is this really true? Just trying to think of the dirt cutting down heat transfer, it seems that the fuel would go lean not rich (ie brain thinks there is less air). Lean makes engine hotter but rich makes catalytic hotter, no? Lean also consistent with pinging, no? Given there is no engine light, i can't see how things are at risk (yet). A few more days cant hurt?

Thanks for any thoughts on this.
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Old 01-15-2009, 11:21 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I would try brake cleaner, or the MAF cleaner, be VERY careful with it, those wires are little and can be broken so easy. Take it out, take it in a heated well lit area, clean it, examine it, reinstall, pray.
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Old 01-16-2009, 12:15 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Hey Iman, great to hear from you. I prayed in English, French, and every other language i don't know. No luck. Wires appeared ok before and after cleaning. Used throttle body cleaner from Motomaster. Cleaned all around. At mechanics suggestion, i drove a bit with maf disconnected. Performance had the same boggy charactaristics but was noticeably worse so i think that confirms that 1) the maf is even more likely to be the problem, 2) better to use a dry air filter than the oiled type, 3) cracked snorkel tube had not really made the problem worse, 4) despite my earlier thoughts about the weather making things worse, changing the intake arrangement to use engine compartment air only did not improve things and 5) since maf wasn't dirty, i can't conclude engine's running lean. This (new) Mechanic said it pings when rich which is opposite to what Jim said. Can you clarify which is correct. Rich means catalytic may be gone already or soon. Temps are -10 to -20 & as far as i know, the only temp sensor is in the intake so could that be the problem? How to check? Also i may cover the front grille to see if that improves anything.

Anyway it appears that the problem now is getting a less expensive maf. I'm becoming more friendly to getting used one from the wrecker despite the risk of crapping out. If so, maybe i should get both sensors fwiw. Thoughts??
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Old 01-16-2009, 01:22 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Conditions that cause pinging are hot, lean, and advanced timing. I've worked on and studied autos for 28 yrs now.

I'm glad I didn't buy a K&N air filter now.
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Old 01-16-2009, 11:28 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Thanks for confirming cause of ping.

I've begun to wonder why, if the maf is really broken, there is ANY improvement when the maf was connected vs disconnected per my last post. Is there any such thing as a half broken maf?

Ran across this article (Audi) which suggests the maf signal is not always used.
Mass air flow - S4Wiki says
"Unlike wideband O2 sensor equipped cars, the ME7.1's narrow band 02 readings are ignored during open loop operation. The O2 sensors (along with MAF readings) are used to determine fueling only during closed loop operation (idle and partial throttle)." &
""If the air mass meter fails, the air mass is calculated on the basis of a characteristic curve (throttle valve angle and engine speed)"

Is there any similar Suzuki specs?
Is there a chance that if the maf is not completely broken, it is not really broken at all? ie its some other problem. ????
Is there a list of specs on these sensors to determine if any are interchangeable with ours?.

Cheers.
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