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Old 10-22-2011, 09:29 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Idles Erratically - Car Un-Drivable

I have a 2007 Suzuki Grand Vitara XSport RWD 2.7 liter V6 engine. 5 speed automatic transmission. U.S. Model, Imported from Japan. I am located in Florida, U.S.A.

Now I know someone must have had this problem before. I recall someone saying that the Suzu GV ECM loses throttle body calibration when the battery is disconnected for more than 20 seconds so I performed the calibration procedure as per the service manual.

Anyway here is what has happened from the top.

Two days ago I replaced my old leaking corroded car battery. It was leaking fluid out the top around the terminals and spilling down the sides into the pan. Fortunately none of the acid spilled onto the frame and corroded any major parts. I cleaned the battery clamps with acid neutralizer with plastic sheets to avoid liquid from draining into the engine compartment.

I replaced my old lead acid battery with an Enersys Odyssey 34R-PC1500, AGM battery that I had ordered form their web site. I guess I was tired of lead acid batteries corroding my cables and leaking acid causing damage.

The car started up fine after that. I noticed that it was idling slow though but recovered when I left in in park for a few seconds. I assumed that it was attempting to re-cal the throttle position and I drove it around town to check if everything was ok, and it was so then I parked it for the night.

Next day - started up fine and drove it to work. No Problems

Lunch time - Drove it to Subway no problem but on the way back to work it stalled when an old lady backed out of a parking space in front of me. That was the first time this car has ever stalled on me. Started right up and drove back to work.

After work - Drove to a friendís house in town to visit no problems. Then drove home on the highway average speed 70mph. After getting home I turned off the engine and ran the system with the radio on for 10 minutes while I was in the garage. Just for giggles I took my DMM and tested the voltage of my new battery just to see where it was with 10 minutes of system load. (12.65V good) I started the car up after that and this is where the real problems began.


The Main Issue

The engine idles high. 2000 rpm on startup. When warm the tack alternates every second between 1700 and 2000 rpm like the gas is being pumped continuously. 1700-2000-1700-2000 so on and so on.

I turned the engine off and took the key out disconnected the -neg battery cable for 1 minute. Reconnected and turned the system on, waited 10 sec. and started the engine. Again 1700-2000-1700-2000 rpm

I repeated the same process disconnected battery and this time turning the system off after the 10 sec. Restarted the engine and, again 1700-2000-1700-2000.

I tried driving the car in this condition to see if I could get it to the local Auto Zone to get them to flash out the codes and see what the ECM had to say. BUT! it won't go over 20-30 mph and has limited response to the accelerator pedal. In park or nutural it won't tack past 3000rpm. and doesnít want to upshift into 3rd gear in drive. When slowing I have to hold it back with the brake as it wants to idle around 2000rpm. This is an un-drivable condition. Can't go faster than 30mph and idles dangerously high.

Lights on the dash

The check engine light is steady on
The ESP light is steady on
The traction control light is blinking.

I can't seem to get the car out of this condition. It acts like the computer is stuck in error mode. Voltage is steady charging at 14.5 volts when the engine is on and at 12.7 volts when the engine is off.

What happened to my car? I have never had something like this after replacing a battery in any other car I have owned. Key was out and system was off and dis-connected the -neg bat cable first. then +pos. Reconnected +pos first then -neg then powered on the system and started the engine so I did it the right way.

What have I done?

Please help!
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Old 10-22-2011, 10:22 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Just to understand something correctly.

When you removed the battery the second time, after the engine had started to play up, did the check engine light come back on right away once the engine was started again?

ESP light, and flashing traction control is normal. This is because you have not recalibrated the steering wheel angle sensor after replacing the battery. There is a super simple procedure for that. Just search the forum.

You engine issue could be caused by a dirty throttle body. A lot of us in here has seen this problem on the older GV like yours and mine. This usually comes up with a battery change, since the throttle body will adjust itself slowly over time, however, once the battery is removed, it seems like the self calibration process assumes too much, and is not able to cope with a very dirty throttle body. Simply put, the window of adjustment does not cover a throttle body with so much dirt in it, so the standard opening is not allowing sufficient air to pass for idle. This again not only flags one of the emission control warnings causing the check engine light, but also cause either strange idle, or false mix settings.

I'm guessing that yours need a good clean of the Throttle body. Search the forum here for information on how to do it yourself if you are up for it. It's a bit fiddly, but with a helper you can do it in an hour or so depending on how thorough you want to be. I did mine in half a day but I also removed everything from the engine and cleaned it superduper.
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Old 10-22-2011, 11:11 PM   #3 (permalink)
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The good ol "throttle body cleaning" procedure should take care of that.
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Old 10-23-2011, 05:11 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Just to understand something correctly.

When you removed the battery the second time, after the engine had started to play up, did the check engine light come back on right away once the engine was started again?
Thank you for the quick response. I figured that would reset the ECM again and get rid of the problem. The engine and ECM light have been on since I started having the problem. They come on instantly after the Power on self test and all the dash lights iluminate and turn off. Then the ECM ChkENG and Traction Control light turn on imediately acompanied by a relay click under the hood even when the engine is not running. I did not know the steering wheel had to be recalibrated. I will read about that.

Question

Why would the ECM go out of cal from a dirty throdle body if the battery had been disconnected 20 hours earlier?

Just a comment

This is the wierdest viehicle I have ever owned. All others have never gone out of calibration when I disconnected a battery. It seems this car is not a veihicle for working people how have two jobs and work 50 hour a week. I will have to take it in to Firestone to get the throdle body cleaned. Their the closest mechanics to me that I feel comfortable driving the car to in it's current condition.

Last edited by NW08GVitara; 10-23-2011 at 05:22 AM.
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Old 10-23-2011, 07:18 AM   #5 (permalink)
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You most likely did not see the throttle body problem, because resetting the ECU puts the program to default mixture settings. Basically, run in settings. This takes a minimum of 25km driving to go back to normal. I'm guessing that your driving caused the ECU to start attempting to adjust itself based on throttle body intake valve position, and the measured airflow. Then once you get to an idle situation, the dirt in the throttle body cause it to shut off airflow, where it expects normal airflow for idle. It's not time, but more a distance driven situation that cause this.

To calibrate the ESP, is more or less just a matter of finding a straight road somewhere with no traffic. Turn the engine off, then on again, and drive straight at low speed for something like 100meters. That should fix it. I'm not even sure if you need to turn the engine off or not. My guess is that the ESP compares steering position angle with the pulses on each wheels ABS sensor to determine that the vehicle is travelling in a straight line for a set distance, and then locks it in, and enables ESP again. I would not worry about it until you get the TB cleaned.

You could clean it yourself. All you need is a spray on throttle body cleaner. Remove the air intake from the TB, turn the ignition to ON, but do not start it. Get someone to press the throttle pedal all the way down, and spray the throttle body while the butterfly valve is open. Clean around the opening with a rag on a stick (don't stick your fingers in there) and make sure that all the dirt is gone. Use plenty of the spray. Make sure to use the dedicated TB cleaner, since there is some kind of coating in the intake that could be damaged by other degreasers etc
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Oz. GV 2006 2.7 Prestige
Rocky Road 2" Lift
ProComp MX6 Adjustables
PIRELLI Scorpion ATR 245/70/17 (31")
ARB Onboard Compressor and 2.5L Tank
ARB Deluxe Bullbar
9500 Lbs Winch
Optima YellowTop D34
Roof Cage with 4x HID 4"
GME TX3100 UHF and 1.2m Antenna
HID H11 Lowbeam upgrade
OutdoorAuto Skidplates Ferrari Red!
OME Front springs +35kg +25mm

2x 12" Dali WD12 Subs, 2x300Wrms Infinity Kappa Amp.

Currently 71.000km +7%

Projects: Dual Battery
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Old 10-23-2011, 01:47 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Is the throttle body cleaning included in the (seemingly excessive) maintenance schedule as provided by Suzuki? If it isn't, it calls into question the competence of that schedule.
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Old 10-23-2011, 02:20 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I just got it to run correctly.

This morning got up and tried the car again. Still 2000-1700-2000-1700 rpm.

I read the service manual on how to calibrate the steering angle sensor. Drive the car in a straight line with the wheel steady until the light goes out. It did. But the engine still idled high and the ESP light was still on so I turned around and went home. Took the key out and put it back in and activated the system. The ESP light was still on. Did it again. Took key out and back in and activated the system. ESP light went out.

Only the Chk. Eng. Light was on at this point so I decided to start the engine. It ran normally. I took this opportunity to drive 5 miles to the nearest Auto Zone but on the way but the ESP light came back on and the car slowed to 35mph holding up traffic so I pulled into a neighborhood. Took the key out then restarted the engine. Back to normal. I drove to AZ and had the guy read the codes with their scan tool.

He said it was a code P2101, a difference between the foot pedal position sensor and the throttle control actuator. It all made sense to me. The Throttle was never calibrated because the ESP was locking out the ECM. The ESP was activated because the traction control was tripped because the steering wheel angle sensor was out of cal.

I drove home and calibrated the throttle position sensor by disconnecting the battery for 1 minute and activating the system for 10 seconds. Then I started the engine and the chk. Eng. Light was off.

I drove the car around town and it ran normally.

Bottom line the Steering angle sensor must me calibrated before the throttle position senor can be calibrated. The engine wonít operate properly if this is not done in the right order. All this can be avoided by not disconnecting the battery. Whew!

Anyway thank you all for responding to my problems. I am glad I replaced my old black acid box with a good solid AGM battery that will last probably longer than the car itself.
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Old 10-23-2011, 07:01 PM   #8 (permalink)
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You better get your TB cleaned before you get in trouble again.

I'm certain that the two has nothing to do with each other, and that the fact it works now is nothing but a coincidence..
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Oz. GV 2006 2.7 Prestige
Rocky Road 2" Lift
ProComp MX6 Adjustables
PIRELLI Scorpion ATR 245/70/17 (31")
ARB Onboard Compressor and 2.5L Tank
ARB Deluxe Bullbar
9500 Lbs Winch
Optima YellowTop D34
Roof Cage with 4x HID 4"
GME TX3100 UHF and 1.2m Antenna
HID H11 Lowbeam upgrade
OutdoorAuto Skidplates Ferrari Red!
OME Front springs +35kg +25mm

2x 12" Dali WD12 Subs, 2x300Wrms Infinity Kappa Amp.

Currently 71.000km +7%

Projects: Dual Battery
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