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Timing chains a MAJOR problem!!

259K views 132 replies 32 participants last post by  Scorch 
#1 ·
My 2007 XL7 currently has 80 000 KMS or approx. 50 000 miles. My engine light came on a few weeks ago but would only come on for a short time then go off for a period of time. I checked the code and it came up as a P008, something to do with the crank or cam shaft timing. But since the light was not staying on permanently I thought it might just be a problem with the sensor itself. About 2 weeks later the light came on and stayed on. The truck seemed to be running fine and have not noticed any lack of performance. I brought it to the Suzuki dealer this morning to find out that the timing chains need to be changed. I was told that this is a problem/flaw with these motors. The parts have been ordered and my vehicle will be spending 2-3 days next week. This is all covered under the powertrain warranty. I did ask if I should expect the same problem 80 000 KMS later and they said probably not since they are replacing the parts with what is suppose to better quality parts from Suzuki. I am not impressed at all with this problem and I will probably get rid of this vehicle by next year. I have lost confidence with this vehicle!
 
#2 ·
I've never heard of a P008 code. :huh:

What or how did they determine that you need chains?? If your engine was properly maintained and treated, that's bunk! :eek:

I've got 243,000 miles on mine.
 
#4 ·
timing chain

The code is a DTC P0008 "Engine Position System Performance Bank 1".There are actually 3 timing chains. This code activates if there is a misalignment at an idler sprocket for either bank or at the crankshaft. I believe this problem is only on 2007 and newer XL7's. Apparently there is so much tension on these chains that they do actually stretch which will eventually cause problems so I am told. I will update more when I bring the vehicle in next week. I will ask more questions to find out more about this.
 
#5 · (Edited)
#6 ·
Yup. They stretch.. I've replaced tons of them. Some less than 40,000 km
If you put the old ones next to the new ones you can actually see about 1/2" difference.
I've seen one get bad enough to skip a tooth!
 
#116 ·
Larry - since you have replaced tons of these, I imagine you can answer this for me. I have a 2007 XL-7 3.6L with 103,000 miles on it - so right out of warranty the chains go...mechanic has had an issue with setting the timing after replacing the chains, machining the heads, etc, etc etc, and has had my vehicle for a ridiculous amount of time. If I were to pick it up from him and bring it to a mechanic with more experience on these vehicles, how much would you expect me to pay for basically just the timing to be set and engine put back together?
 
#11 · (Edited)
What year and model do you have and where are you located (US, Can, UK, or?) :huh:

This source states, in part...

Suzuki builds the High Feature V6 at its Sagara, Japan plant for the Suzuki XL7 SUV under license from General Motors. Displacing 3.6 L, this engine produces 252 hp (188 kW) at 6500 rpm and 243 lb·ft (329 N·m) at 2300 rpm. Fuel economy 4–6 km/liter in city, 7–9 km/liter.

Applications:

* 2007-2009 Suzuki XL7


Reading the whole article, this engine has FAR reaching success in a myriad of other vehicle applications. How and why are the Suzuki derived engines so frail in the "chain" world , Larry? :eek:

GM High Feature engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
#12 ·
i dont know how many other vehicles this actual engine made it into..
i DO know that there has been a couple cases of the chains needing replacement on the Pontiac Torrent.
Equinox, which was on the same platform never had the 3.6
they got a 3.4 version (so i am told)
 
#14 ·
i see that.. but i dont think they are identical.
here's what suzuki has to say
this is from a training course..

Introduction
Although the architecture for this engine begins with a General Motors North Star design, the N36A has
been redesigned from the cylinder heads on up by Suzuki engineers for application in XL7. The entire
engine is manufactured in Japan, including casting of the cylinder block. The engines are then shipped to
CAMI for installation in XL7. This engine is unique to XL7 and is not shared with any General Motors
products that are assembled at CAMI.
Key features to will be covered in detail in this reference book include:
• Engine mechanical configuration
• Camshaft timing
• THROTTLE ACTUATOR CONTROL system (drive by wire)
• Variable valve timing (VVT) for intake and exhaust valves
General Description
 
#15 ·
Ah HA! I see where they must have added the crappy chains! :(

"redesigned from the cylinder heads on up by Suzuki engineers
engine is unique to XL7"


They should have left it alone.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Welcome Sbrule! :)

If the GM variant 3.6, you'd better wait on Lumpylarry to chime in. The more I think about it, that's proly what you are dealing with.

Edit: I just realized that you jumped in on an existing post.


Go here for 2.5 / 2.7 supportive info if you have the earlier engine....

http://www.suzuki-forums.com/1g-1999-2005-vitara-grand-vitara/15338-timing-chain-tensioner-7.html

http://www.suzuki-forums.com/1g-2001-2006-xl-7/25017-timing-chain-tensioner-replacement.html

http://www.suzuki-forums.com/1g-2001-2006-xl-7/20200-sealant-use-suzuki-timing-chain-cover.html

http://www.mediafire.com/file/njnmwj5yjtk/(1 ~ 8 ) Grand Vitara and XL-7 Valve Timing .pdf
 
#23 ·
Hey, this is the friendliest forum I've ever been on! Thanks guys.

I gave the vin to the parts dept at a local dealership. They sent me some diagrams to go by.

Cam locks I can prob come up with. Just getting at the crank pulley now...haven't seen a keyway like that before.
 
#28 ·
Not trying to be an ass or to take food from your table, but can you tell us the mileage on the vehicle? I presume the owner never took it to the dealer?
The chains (if in good condition) are supposed to last the life of the engine right?
After them being replaced, will they stretch at a faster rate than usual or the problem is only with the OEM chains?
 
#26 ·
You can do just the chains.
That's not a keyway, there's another special tool that fits on there to prevent you from rotating backwards "the chains will jump"

There are 2 stages for installing the chains..
After all chains are off you will need to rotate the crank and left cams to position "a".
Do the cams first otherwise if you turn the crank it WILL hit valves.
Once cams are in neutral position then go ahead and turn the crank..
 
#120 ·
hello everyone

i am a mechanic and i'm working on a top end rebuild on an early design 07 XL7 AWD (Inverted tooth primary and roller secondary timing chains). Vehicle had all the codes for stretched timing chains, plus the bank 1 cylinder head gasket was leaking so we ended up disassembling down to the block. Disassembly went well.

The heads will be back from the machine shop tmrw and I have the EN 46105 cam lock tools on the way. We are replacing all the timing tensioners, chains, guides, everything. Also new waterpump, plugs, coolant temp sensor and all gaskets from head up. We have alldatapro at the shop so i have printed all the correct diagrams for the repair, but i still have some questions about setting the crank/piston position before reinstalling the heads and installing the timing assembly.

A. Can I: 1.set the crankshaft now when the heads are off 2. Then install the cams and lock them in their stage one position on the head 3. then install the heads/cam assembly onto the block 4. then install and align the timing chains?

B. What is the proper crankshaft/piston position to start? Cylinder 1 at TDC?

C. What is crankshaft position "A"

Any other help is welcomed
 
#29 ·
Hey, this is the friendliest forum I've ever been on! Thanks guys.
There are a great bunch of folks on here. We (I) only request one thing. :rolleyes:

If you could post some pics, "How To", Tips or lessons learned, that would be GREAT, and would certainly help out with the 3.6 support!

IF you can't host pics on line, I'd be happy to do that for you and I can PM you my e-mail address if you'd like.
 
#30 · (Edited)
You guys are a good bunch, wish I had a Suzuki!

As far as a write up, I'll try to take some pics, but my work is piling up - small garage.

Ya I had allot of trouble with the parts depts wanting to help me at first. Seems they were pretty miffed about the possibility of a warranty.

Car has under 100k and could be covered under warranty if he has all his oil change records (they told me that part only after they knew they weren't getting the job).
I called Suzuki about independent shop work and customer reimbursement - they said no. Called my friend and he said "get the parts, do it" - good friend and more money than allot of folks put together. Car is basically just a toy for him.

Also found out Suzuki has allot of trouble with stocking the chains. One parts guy had a list of GM vehicles that used the same ones and at half the price of Suzuki's. I decided to go with factory for the documentation in case it might be of use later. One cross reference was an 09 Chevy Equinox. ( evidently I have the later engine for 07 Xl-7s btw )

I should have the chains tomorow. Let you guys know how its going. Thanks again!
 
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