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Old 02-23-2013, 06:07 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 2.7 Has me Baffled - Video Linked

2005 XL-7, 30K miles. Never had any trouble. No cam chain noise ever.
Battery was dying, replaced battery and it cranked right up. Revved up high like itsometimes does upon startup, and we shut it down. Good job.
Next morning try to crank it and it sounds crazy. Like it is freewheeling. I figure the cam chain has failed, popped the valve cover to verify. Looks pretty good, no obvious problems.
Check compression, have 80lbs in number 2, 100lbs in 4 and 6.
Puzzled, I am questioning my diagnosis.
Check out the video. Is it turning fast enough? Could I have a simple starter problem? I calculate 16 turns in 7 seconds. 136 rpm cranking speed. Approximately.
http://static.photobucket.com/player...ps4644ea09.mp4

Last edited by Jon K.; 02-23-2013 at 09:07 PM. Reason: More Information
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Old 02-23-2013, 07:24 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Need the compression numbers from ALL cylinders to ascertain engine condition.

30K only miles? Really?

Can not open your attachment on my IPad.

Any codes on a scan?

I assume it WON'T start now, correct?
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Old 02-23-2013, 08:10 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Should I attach the video differently? This my first post, I do not know my way around very well.
Does not run, sounds like it is freewheeling. Maybe. Not sure now, as I am building some compression, but not much.
Have not scanned, thought it was catastrophic mechanical.
Does anyone know what starter speed should be? 136rpm sound right?
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Old 02-23-2013, 09:51 PM   #4 (permalink)
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The video prob is probably on my end (Apple product) or my computer ignorance. I'll jump on a PC later.

The no-start issue...you're thinking jumped valve timing, valve to piston contact, low to no compression, huh. .
You may be correct. Only an open and inspect will confirm.

I wouldn't get hung up on the starter RPM, but I would be concerned on the sound that you are now hearing, cranking wise.

And welcome aboard!
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Old 02-23-2013, 11:10 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I listened to your video! Nothing jumps out at me, other than maybe a not so robust cranking speed, although adequate for starting, in my opinion. I don't hear any specific out-of-the-norm sounds either.

The engine appears very clean internally, from what I can observe.
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:00 AM   #6 (permalink)
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It's cranking very slowly compared to mine with a ~5yo battery. But it's hard to say if that could be the problem?
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Old 02-24-2013, 06:24 AM   #7 (permalink)
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What has me hung up is that I have a bit of compression. If I had bent valves I would have none.
Right?
Max, thank you for your observations. This engine sounds OK to you?
I do find reference to general start speeds of around 100 rpm are normal.
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Old 02-24-2013, 06:49 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
If I had bent valves I would have none
Very low to no pressure numbers, (and if only affecting certain cylinders) a cyclic up and down cranking speed.

Having said that..valve TIMING being off will alter the cranking sound and compression #'s too, and not necessarily cause valve damage (yet!).

A cylinder leak down test may be a better choice at this point. After that, dare I suggest opening up the front of the engine to inspect timing components and to verify valve timing?

If timing is in spec, components look good and compression is down, then it's off w/the heads!
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:11 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Allow me to throw out an obscure personal observation.

Shortly after purchasing my 2.5 V-6 GV (used) I had a no-start early morning episode with odd sounding (faster really) cranking speed and fear of the dreaded "timing chain failure" that I had read so much about. I was persistent in attempting to start it, and while doing so, it started to fire on a couple of cylinders, belch black smoke, made a horrific sound, then after several minutes of running, settled out and was fine!

My only idea was that of a massive fuel dump into the cylinders (with partial "hydraulicing" the pistons), and I've since always used SeaFoam additive to help keep the fuel delivery system clean.

I haven't experienced this phenomenon again, with the exception of if I leave the vehicle sitting for several days to a week, I've had a misfire start-up and a little bit of foreign noise. That's happened maybe twice in the last several years. I think it's from fuel injector, induction side open loop dumping of fuel and maybe the chain tensioners losing their oil prime. Not sure.

Not sure if any of this helps either, but I thought I'd throw it out there to ponder. Has the vehicle been sitting for long periods of time?


And to answer your question...
Quote:
Max.....This engine sounds OK to you?
I can't arrive at a specific conclusion from the recording, given the means of sound delivery and due to the fact the the valve covers are removed, which will alter somewhat the comparative normal "sound" of starting.
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'53 Chevy 3100 Pick-up w/327 SB, TH400 trans w/78' Nova rear end.
'03 Honda Odyssey (Momma's ride)
'72 Chevy Nova. One owner, SB, A/C, power disc/drum & steering
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Old 02-24-2013, 07:42 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Thanks guys,
Max, the engine sounded exactly the same before I started disassembly. Sounded like it was freewheeling. Hard to describe, but fairly well captured in the video.
I thought the cam chain was broken, but that is indeed not the case.
Akkk, I don't know. Wide open to suggestions.
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